Date:

12/15/01

Time:

12:28 AM

Comments

I have read that 80-90% of Americans support Bush. Does anyone know where they went? I live in a small town in a rural area, usually quite conservative, and haven't found a soul who supports Bush. I haven't found any at work, at church, at the grocery store. In fact, I haven't even personally run into anyone who knows someone who supports Bush! Is this possibly a "city thing", the result of spending one's life exposed to toxic fumes from factories, etc., causing some sort of brain damage that leads to an irrational support of a not-quite-bright tyrant, so that all Bush supporters live in big cities? Could this all be the result of some kind of UFO-inflicted mass hypnosis of everyone except for a few people (10-20%)in little pockets of the population? Or, crazier still, could this just possibly be a bit of propaganda brought to the people by the Corporate State of America that owns (and appears to control) the media?

Date:

12/16/01

Time:

10:46 AM

Comments

Good site. The constitution is a great work that often seems to be overlooked and ignored by politicians.

If I may make a suggestion, the second and especially the tenth ammendments are also overlooked and are under attack by the politicians.

Date:

12/22/01

Time:

11:44 AM

Comments

I Just found this place. Its good to know others think like us. Bush stole the election and we should not support him or his war on Afghanistan. Clinton, the greatest president in the history of our Nation should have declared the election null and void and stayed in as President. We had the army and could have done it. Hillary could have followed him if he was tiered of being as president.

George and Bob in sunny and beautyful California

Date:

12/23/01

Time:

04:13 PM

Comments

Just want to thank you for your wonderful site...I will share this link with folks that I pass information and news with during the week...folks who, like me, are looking for "TRUTH"....the quotes, ideas, and information you provide are an excellent service to our fellow citizens...thank you again! Just another mid aged woman wandering the desert of America's democracy.... mimi

Date:

12/30/01

Time:

01:58 PM

Comments

Thank you Matilda for sharing your thoughts and letting us hear the voice of sensible Americans. I was particularly fond of Stevenson who was a candidate in 56 when I first went to the States as a student. Reading his quotes made me very nostalgic. Has everything been forgotten... Marisa deom Madrid, Spain

Date:

01/02/02

Time:

11:09 PM

Comments

We need to help kids!!!!

Children for an HONEST education Campaign

Click here to view this message (too long for the message board)

Date:

01/13/02

Time:

08:11 PM

Comments

I love this page. Let's keep it open and keep it filled with good comments. My choice for everybody to think about is. Do we really have "PRIMACY OF THE BALLOT" in this country, or are elections just public opinion polls. p

Date:

01/16/02

Time:

09:52 PM

Comments

Good idea for a site. I'm glad we live in a country that we can voice our opinions. I'm one of the 80% that support Bush and believe that he didn't steal the election. If he did, Thank God! Thousands more would have died in later attacks with Algore, Madeline Albright, et al in control.

Randy - a Republican that will be voting long after Matilda has taken the big dirt nap.

Date:

01/17/02

Time:

05:43 AM

Comments

Wow, Randy ! What a deliciously thoughtful and elegant post. Dirt nap indeed… I am indebted to you for providing such a compelling incentive to vote in every election. It will be exceedingly gratifying to cancel out your vote in many elections to come. 
Kevin Lightner

Date:

01/17/02

Time:

06:15 AM

Comments

So this is where the 10% that doesn't support President Bush hang out. Wow, 1200 hits since the webpage started in September!! WooHooo!!! I'll be sure to tell all my Republican friends, so we can exchange ideas.

DannyBoy

Date:

01/17/02

Time:

10:06 AM

Comments

Lovely and valuable site. Thank you for putting this together. You may want to know that not all opinion polls are as fixed as the ones we hear about. One recently asked who the respondent would vote for if the election were held again today, and only 49% picked the Pretzeldent. And that with a jingoistic news media and a war going on! Little by little, we'll take this country back. Thanks for your efforts.

Date:

01/17/02

Time:

10:29 AM

Comments

I am confident that Bush the younger is a one-term pResident. Our laws will have been vanquished and our democratic future will look hazy. We will probably be internationally sullied, and our homeless rate will have risen to all time highs.

The "conservative" message will be seen for exactly what it has been since Reagan, and there will be a Democratic landslide victory, but none too soon.

The McCarthyistic minority has done damage to an unsuspecting America, but your power days are numbered.

Date:

01/17/02

Time:

03:10 PM

Comments

Thank you for a lovely site and your thoughtful messages.

I've been in despair since the coup. However, the Enron debacle has convinced me that the tide is about to turn. No, we can't trust the corporate-owned press to tell us the truth; but the sad truth is, the corporations will overreach. They won't think of tomorrow or the long term, of their workers or the environment or anything but their incessant overwhelming greed. They will buy off politicians and steal from their employees; they can't help themselves. And in overreaching they will bring back regulations, unions, and everything else they most hate.

So take heart. Bush is owned by corporations. Greed will be their downfall.

Date:

01/20/02

Time:

09:44 PM

Comments

Bush is owned by corporations? How did he help bail out Enron after they bought him with campaign contributions? Oh right, he didn't.

Date:

01/20/02

Time:

10:04 PM

Comments

Bought by corporations? They must mean Tom Daschle:

If General Electric had paid off Tom Daschle, would they still have to clean up the PCBs they dumped into the Hudson River? What I mean? What I mean is that Tom Daschle has given one of his biggest campaign contributors a free pass on polluting the environment with toxic waste. He has told this corporation that he will pick our pockets - force we, the taxpayers, to work as slaves instead of for ourselves - to pay for cleaning up any and all messes the company caused.

This is the kind of thing the environmentalist wackos accuse George W. Bush of doing, though they have not a shred of evidence or even the appearance that he's done so. Yet, Tom Daschle has done all this and gotten a pass.

Full story at: the Rush Limbaugh site

DB

Date:

01/20/02

Time:

10:14 PM

Comments

Let's see Ashcroft recused himself after having $50K in donations from Enron, but Lieberman won't when he has received $257K? Hmmmmmm....

Randy (that's from the same webpage DB referred to)

Date:

01/21/02

Time:

09:38 AM

Comments

I think we should keep pushing this Enron scandal on the Republicans, even if he has done nothing wrong - it's all we have against Bush so far. I'm afraid that the economy will turn around and we will lose all of the elections coming up.

Rontesha

Date:

01/21/02

Time:

11:01 AM

Comments

Ditto, Rontesha. Happy MLK day to you and others!

Date:

01/21/02

Time:

12:16 PM

Comments

I think Ronteshia is right. The worst thing that could happen to the Democrats is that the economy rebounds. Bush and the Republicans would be unbeatable in the next round of elections. I think Daschle understands that and that is why he is doing everything he can to stop tax cuts and get in Prsident Bush's way in his attempts to turn the recession around. In Democrat's eyes, a couple of years of recession might be a little rough for everyone, but would be worth it in the long run.

Randy

Date:

01/23/02

Time:

01:57 PM

Comments

Dear readers,

This website was created with the purpose of informing and inspiring you, and most important of all, of urging you to exercise your privilege of voting (for whomever you choose)!! We welcome your comments and will never delete them unless they become insulting and vitriolic, which some of them have. I should think intelligent Americans could express their views, even opposing views, in a courteous and dignified manner. Anything less than this is an insult to Republicans as well as to Democrats!!! Remember, the name of this website is LETSTALKSENSE. We thank you for your interest. 

Matilda Lipscomb

Date:

01/23/02

Time:

04:52 PM

Comments

Tillie, You go girl!

Rontesha

Date:

01/30/02

Time:

07:56 AM

Comments

Oh God, here we go again. You people are so.....whatever. It's a waste of time. I need only point to the comments submitted by George and Bob....If these idiots are representative of your socialist views, well......good luck. Gore lost, Bush won. Period. Get over it. And yes, W commands a higher approval rating than any president in polling history, republicans outnumber democrats, conservative books top the NY Times best seller list, millions of viewers are flocking to FOX news for unbiased reporting, the networks liberal agenda has been exposed and their anchors have been disgraced, your party leaders in DC are floundering in the face of a wildly popular president, people are no longer falling for the class warfare garbage, and republicans will once again take the senate in November. It's sooooo fun watching you liberals flop around!

Date:

01/30/02

Time:

12:42 PM

Comments

Matilda,

I find your pretzel eating comments to be ludicrous and clearly the sour grapes work of someone that opposed George Bush in the election a year ago. Also it is clear to me that you have way too much time on your hands and you seriously need to get a life. This is just an attempt to take a very simple act and make it sound like it could have only been performed by the village idiot. I take it that you have never choked on any food matter such as a peanut or a potato chip and that the Heimlich Maneuver is not something that saves hundreds of lives each year. Thank God that you are perfect as we Christians have been waiting for the second coming of Christ for over 2000 years. If you wish to debate the issues then fine, do so, but to take something as insignificant as this and attempt to demean someones ability or intelligence is childish. If my children had done this to a school mate, I would have considered it unkind and worthy of punishment. As for you, I would suggest that you go for a ride with Ted Kennedy and think about it.

Date:

01/30/02

Time:

02:09 PM

Comments

IDIOTS

Date:

01/30/02

Time:

06:32 PM

Comments

Matilda,

This is from your previous addition to this forum:

" I should think intelligent Americans could express their views, even opposing views, in a courteous and dignified manner. Anything less than this is an insult to Republicans as well as to Democrats!!!"

I then read your insulting, childish cutdown of George Bush in Pretzel eating instructions.

Courteous? Dignified? I guess it's alright for the high and mighty Democrats to insult others. Just like Mike Tyson not catching any grief for yelling racial and homosexual insults to the white reporter. The liberals hung John Rocker out to dry.

2 sets of Rules: one for the Democrats and one for the Republicans.

You live in a fantasy land.

Randy

Date:

01/30/02

Time:

07:11 PM

Comments

My mother choked and died in a restaurant. I resent you saying people that choke are stupid.

Martha

Date:

01/31/02

Time:

06:55 AM

Comments

Oh Martha! I am so sorry about your mother. I didn't think of how all this must make you feel as well as all the others that had had parents, children, spouses, etc die from choking.

You must realize that people like Matilda are at the extreme of the Democratic party. They don't speak for us all. The liberals I know deseve a lot more repect than she does.

Rontesha

Date:

01/31/02

Time:

10:06 AM

Comments

matilda, What's the difference between Gomer's comments that you recently censored and the pretzel article that you posted on another page? you stated that opposing views should be stated in a courteous and dignified manner. I found your article to be insulting and vitriolic. I await your comments on Ms. Reno's unfortunate fall or, perhaps, you can find some crippled children to make fun of.

Danny

Date:

01/31/02

Time:

12:54 PM

Comments

I'm waiting to read what Kevin Lighter's thoughts are on Matilda's stupid pretzel article. It will be exceedingly gratifying to cancel out his vote in many elections to come.

Date:

01/31/02

Time:

02:33 PM

Comments

My dear readers, I am truly sorry if that Pretzel article offended you. You certainly did not find it on this site. You must have seen in on Liberal Slant where it was mistakenly published under my name. I did not write it. Actually, though, I thought it was hilarious, and I wish I could write that well. But I must say I'm encouraged to learn that you're reading Liberal Slant. They publish some excellent articles, you must admit. And please don't let Mr. Bush destroy your sense of humor along with everything else.

Matilda Lipscomb

Date:

01/31/02

Time:

03:57 PM

Comments

"It was mistakenly published under my name." What kind of bill clinton bs excuse is this?

dm

Date:

01/31/02

Time:

04:57 PM

Comments

I was suprised to find out that you no longer live in the United States. Since you have been living in France, why do you think you have a right to say anything about our way of life? If you want to take part in the American political process, you should live in the USA.

I also think you excuse that the pretzel article was published under your name by mistake is BS. I read liberal material to see the mindset of those that we conservative Republicans have to battle.

Randy

Date:

01/31/02

Time:

05:06 PM

Comments

Anyone who thought Bush choking was funny will undoubtedly think Janet Reno's fall was hilarious.

Date:

02/04/02

Time:

07:05 AM

Comments

I am surprized to see that Randy attacks Matilda, whatever her beliefs are, for residing outside the United States. One's place of residence has no effect on one's right, as an American, to voice one's opinion, and in doing so to incite debate which is, in fact what democracy is all about. Maybe a little stay outside of the US would give people like Randy a bit of perspective on what goes on in the rest of the world and what effect that can have on the US. Maybe Randy should keep in mind that residency outside the US does not make one any less an American and that some of us who live outside of the US have not so to speak "chosen" to do so because we didn't like the "American way of life".

Jimmy Joe

Date:

02/04/02

Time:

08:38 PM

Comments

Jimmy Joe,

First, are you assuming Matilda is an American Citizen? Does she have dual citizenship, or has she renounced her American Citizenship? Where does her tax dollars go? I think that those that don't pay taxes should not have a say in our government. I have trouble with a large percentage of American not paying Federal Taxes and having a say in policy making. There should be little weight given to any statement made by individuals that have no longer reside in the United States and pay no taxes. Matilda - would you like to go on the record? It is none of our business, but this may influence how others interpret your views. This is on the honor system of course. We have no way of verifying. BTW Jimmy Joe, I frequently go out of the country on medical missions and known exactly what kind of impact the United States has on other countries.

Randy Not against Matilda, just liberal inconsistencies.

Date:

02/05/02

Time:

03:47 AM

Comments

Randy, Does the fact that one is not an American citizen or have dual nationality mean that one has no right to voice one’s opinion, especially in cyberspace? Do you take any criticism of the existing political situation in the US to mean that one must have renounced one’s American citizenship? Do you think that the poor and underprivileged or the retired who pay no taxes should have no say in the way that the US is run? Why should anyone have to “bear his/her soul” and give all the details of their lives when they want to criticize the US government? -- just so you can know them and categorize them into neat little boxes. So, now, if I get it right, to voice an opinion on the US or its policy or to have an opinion about American politicians, one has to 1) be an American citizen, 2) reside in the US, and 3) pay taxes to the US (does this mean that you take no legal tax deductions yourself?)? Bravo, Randy and his conservative cohorts, you all seem to think that the discussion that takes place in the Limboland of cyberspace should be limited to those of whom you approve. The Constitution says no such thing. Perhaps you should work on the adoption of an amendment . You seem to want to limit some of the basic rights of the Bill of Rights. You talk of the inconsistencies of liberalism. Don't you think that you conservatives have your own. "And why beholdest thou the mote (speck) that is in thy brother's eye and not the beam (plank) that is in thine own eye?"

Jimmy Joe

P.S. It seems to me that George W. Bush was the first one to laugh at the pretzel incident (He should have listened to his mother!! --Bad boy!!), thus opening the door to others.....

Date:

02/05/02

Time:

05:48 AM

Comments

Ehhh, Randy? I am not a U.S. citizen, so my opinions may not qualify. Still, I want you to consider something when you find the time; for better or worse, the USA are the world's major power today and have exercised this power on the world scene for a long time. The military available to the USA is so overwhelming compared to most other nations, that the latter have no chance in a stand-up fight. This can be a good thing, as it certainly cuts down on open conflict potential with other nations, as only the suicidal would want to follow the example of the Taliban. But how many people you know would willingly let themselves be slapped around this way, without harboring resentment? In any action of this scale, some innocents - if nothing else, then in their own opinion - are bound to have grief. And they can't strike back. Except by covert action. I fear that, both because I know a lot of Americans whom I would not want to lose but also because the logical final is a nuclear detonation on American soil. That is the most predictable devastation from terrorists' perspective, since biologicals and chemicals without good military logistics require fortunate circumstances to achieve the desired effects. A bomb does not. And when it goes off, the USA are going to go absolutely berserk and that with excellent reason. Not a good scenario.

The only certain way to avoid this would be for the USA to launch preemptive action against any potential provider of nuclear technology - the UK, France, China, Russia (plus fringes), Pakistan and India, etc. to ensure that all nuclear physicists are directly controlled by the USA. But what countries would accept this? Exactly. In all probability, we are talking a world takeover. But that will make the USA exactly what good ol' Ronnie accused the Soviet Union of being - the Evil Empire.

To my doomsday thinking, the USA have two basic options; it can control the entire globe by waging war on any who challenges its supremacy. Or it can acknowledge that other peoples and independent countries exist and take care to co-exist which means compromising, sometimes a lot.

I leave it to you to decide which one it should take.

HFD

Date:

02/05/02

Time:

07:29 AM

Comments

This is for Randy and some of the others who feel I should not speak up about what's happening in our country:

I am an American citizen. I was born in Pennsylvania. I have never become a citizen of any other country. I have never renounced my American citizenship. I was sent by my university in work in France. I have always paid my taxes to the United States. And I am VERY, VERY concerned about the direction my country has taken this past year, as you too should be.

Matilda Lipscomb

Date:

02/05/02

Time:

10:58 AM

Comments

Should I not ask a question because it may hurt someone's feelings? A non US Citizen that spends time, money and effort in trying to manipulate US policy making and election outcome has other interests at heart (ie China's money funneling to the Bill Clinton campaign and Clinton's letting nuclear deployment info go to China).

Thanks you Matilda for responding. Not asking questions like that is like not checking persons of Middle Eastern descent at airports because it might hurt someone feelings. Remember people of middle eastern descent have waged war on us.

I am also concerned about a future nuclear attack on US soil and I don't claim to know what to do about it.

Finally when our forefathers said "no taxation without reprensentation", they didn't expect so many Americans to be not working and depending on the government for a handout. They may have instead said, "No taxation without representation and no representation without taxation".

Randy

Date:

02/05/02

Time:

07:21 PM

Comments

Wow, Liberals going overboard pushing separation of Church and State, but quoting scripture!!!

What happened to banning school prayer, Nativity Scenes, and The Ten Commandments in public buildings? Let's be consistant and leave the bible out of liberal arguments.

Date:

02/05/02

Time:

09:53 PM

Comments

Any portion of world culture should be considered as quotable by anyone whether he be liberal or conservative. Does that mean that some of you have set up a double standard: liberals can quote this and conservatives can quote that.... Phooey!!! Here we go again, reading/putting expectations into what we see and hear.

Date:

02/05/02

Time:

10:13 PM

Comments

Why are there provisions for voting by absentee ballot, especially for Americans who live abroad, if we should have no representation? If we follow the line of reasoning of some people, the higher your salary (i.e., the more taxes you pay) the greater your voice in the American democratic process should be? Come on, now, lets be consistent! --a statement that should be true for both liberals, conservatives, conservative liberals, liberal conservatives, and those somewhere in between.

Date:

02/06/02

Time:

03:39 AM

Comments

Randy, You cannot say that our forefathers "may have said":..... (Perhaps you might thing they should have said, but that is just wishfulthinking, and a "whole nother story"). We must all accept what "the Constitution says". Up until this time only the Supreme Court has had the task of interpreting exactly what the Founding Fathers put into the Constitution!! Do you consider yourself above them, too.

Fatchance

Date:

02/06/02

Time:

07:17 AM

Comments

I just think our founding fathers had little tolerance for those that did not pull their own weight.

Voting should be like the car insurance policy in my state - "No pay, no play". If you don't pay for car insurance (even though it's required) and get in a wreck, you can't collect from someone else's insurance even if it's their fault.

But of course I wouldn't expect you to agree with that. Disallowing votes from the indigent, drains on society would take a large block out of the Democratic voting pool.

Date:

02/06/02

Time:

12:23 PM

Comments

Maybe there is a happy medium. If you work and pay taxes you get one vote, if you don't work and don't pay taxes you don't get to vote. Of course pretty much everyone pays sales tax, so everyone could vote in local elections.

Unless welfare recipients don't get taxes taken out when they swipe their governement card to pay for their groceries. Anyone know for sure?

But democrats believe EVERYONE should vote. I remember the last presidential election they interviewed some guy that said he was suprised his father was a recently registered democrat since he has Alzheimers and has been in a Florida nursing home for years.

PS Happy Birth Day President Reagan!

DB

Date:

02/16/02

Time:

01:37 PM

Comments

2/16/02 Warwick,N.Y. My Dear Matilda I have held off responding to your yellow ribbon campaign mainly due to my dislike of your adopted country. I too enlisted in the Navy during WW2 as soon as I graduated at age 17 and find it hard to come up with anything that France has done for the U.S. after we had saved their face and country at least twice. Why you have chosen France to live in for so many years gives me an inkling as to why you so dislike our Prez. and thought so much of Clinton and Gory. Guess you have been there so long you think like many of your loving countrymen. Why don't you and Kevin come back to your beloved country and teach us a thing or two ( was he a U.S. citizen). Or was he another French country bumpkin? I was very disheartned to see you get mixed up in this kind of garbage as I have had alot of love and respect for you ever since the day you left Warwick for the U.S. Waves. I truly think that you and Kevin would be better thought of if you would stick to your old business instead of sticking your neck out into this. Your OLD friend Walt.

Date:

02/17/02

Time:

02:49 PM

Comments

Matilda, I just finished reading your e-article in liberalslant.com outlining the frailties of our voting system. I am glad to see someone still holding a spotlight on this issue. Too many times I have seen issues that truly matter swept under the rug without any sense of completion to the debate. Thanks again.

Date:

02/19/02

Time:

10:50 PM

Comments

I think Matilda and Kevin can tie all the ribbons they want to anything they want - IN FRANCE!

RB

Date:

02/21/02

Time:

10:44 AM

Comments

O my, Matilda -- I see the wing-nuts have found your message board, busting in and tracking their mud around the place, as they are want to do. Take heart, dear friend, because it only means what you're doing is working.

Let me begin by saying that when pigs fly (discounting Cheney and Chimpboy's jetting about), I will believe the 80% approval ratings being shoved down our throats here in the states. If Enron cooked their books, why would any reasonably intelligent person believe Gallup would be beyond cooking a poll? Zoghby certainly wasn't.

I can understand how lovely the polls look to those with minds eager and small enough to accept them without question, but one thing that has truly amazed me is how Republicans have either outright embraced Reverend Moon and his Unification Church, or are accepting of the fact that Bush senior has made millions in speaking to them, or are just plain ignorant of this strong connection. Of course you know, since I posted to my list recently, but I doubt any of these little minds with muddy feet are aware of the big luncheon Moon held in DC the day before Chimpboy was inaugurated. The big news in Moon's paper (those with muddy feet are probably unaware that Moon owns the Washington Times, as well as UPI) that day was John Ashcroft's surprise guest speaker appearance before the 1700 or so Moonies and followers. Think about it -- A New World Order and the Unification Church -- it fits well, doesn't it?

Even stranger has been the reluctance of Democrats to play this "Moonie card." Surely, fundamentalists would have a major problem with all these big name Republicans sucking up to a man who refers to himself constantly in the third person, and who believes Christ failed in His mission, but he (he calls himself 'father') will finish Christ's work. Moon's influence on key people in Congress was strong enough that there's even a Moonie holiday -- "Parent's Day" was quite literally conceived by Moon.

Because of things like this, although I have no faith at all in anyone on the Republican side of the aisle, I have only slightly more faith in our Democratic representatives. John Kerry voting to confirm that old spook Negroponte as UN Ambassador? Tom Daschle hugging Chimpboy? Forgive me, but personally, I'd sooner hug a fresh 170 pound turd than hug GWB. Another activist I spoke to last night made an interesting observation. She likened what our "representatives" do to what passes for conflict in professional wrestling. Sad to think it, but perhaps there's some truth in the comparison. It would surely explain a lot.

I really stopped by to cheer you up, dear friend, but I've gotten a bit carried away with cleaning up after the flock of sparrows and starlings that lit on your wire. You know you can count on a visit if I pass your way. NZ looks better by the day, but I can't pass up Paris.

p.s. -- any of you mental midgets who care to check my facts will find them all quite true, and searchable on the Unification Church web site. While you're there sucking up to "Father," do an on site search with the words "Washington Times." I can't guarantee it will be operational, but when I did it, it brought back 497 articles. Don't play in the street, little ones.

Best always, Dana

Date:

02/21/02

Time:

06:40 PM

Comments

First, I like to frequent Democratic biased web pages so that people that come upon them won't see left leaning propaganda without rebuttals.

Second, I don't think I have ever mentioned polls. I don't believe in them and I am not poll driven like the entire Clinton/Gore political machine was.

Finally, I recognize the same 'ol Democratic ploy - when you're down, start calling names. Sure you don't want to call me a racist or a homophobe? (I do appreciate the way you mix facts with lies about Moon, that's also a good ploy)

If you are not already in NZ, complaining from afar like Matilda - haul your butt and bring Babs Streisand, Rosie and all those other Democrats who promised to leave when President Bush was elected.

RB

Date:

02/22/02

Time:

02:22 AM

Comments

And you call that little whiny thing a 'rebuttal'? Not a single bit of substance in it, RB. I didn't say anything about your having mentioned polls. I think you did that just to work in a jab at the last elected president, and because you are a pathetic, hopeless little boy.

All I've done is point out who your pals in Washington are lunching with these days. Don't care for the Moonie connection? Then refute it. Say I've mixed lies with truth. Point them out.

The truth is, you can't, because what I wrote is the truth. You, on the other hand are full of bluster and words that mean nothing. Which is ever so typical of your breed.

I'll see if I can work my way down through this pathetic punch list of yours. First, I'll begin with "First" (such a clever construction, so easy for me to follow, gosh, RT, I think you surely must be a professional writer).

Not for a minute do I believe your stated reason for being here. A good part of why you're here is to upset and irritate and generally be a boorish, annoying, infuriating little jerk. People like you make a mockery of their own cause, adding nothing of value to any discussion. I'll wager you have never in your life changed a mind, and you never will.

Deep down, I think you're here because you secretly enjoy reading something more substantial that the drivel that passes for discourse on the typical winger board. "Bump!" "Megadittos!" "Clinton lied!" "Bump!" "Bump!" "Bump!" Hillary's a bitch" "Bump!" "Chelsey's the spawn of Satan!" "Bump!" "Bump!" "Bump!" Recognize the style and content? That's why you don't find liberals posting to, or even reading wingnut sites. It's plain painful to be in the presence of such dumbness -- sort of the intellectual equivalent of being in an elevator with some guy who needs a bath. And that's why you're here, and not there, tending to your own side's nasty business.

Moving right along to "Second" -- oh, I love the way this wonderful device of your works! I'll have to remember it -- but I won't necessarily be following it from this point (mostly just to fool with your dinky mind). See paragraph one, my little RT.

What's this? I'm finally all the way down to "Finally." What's this "ploy" business? I simply reported what I read on the Unification Church's web site, and what was reported in Moon's own paper, the Washington Times. Shall I post the article for you? Think Free Republic would let you post it there? Mixing lies with truth? Where exactly did I do that? I dare your lazy ass to find a lie in anything I wrote about Bush and Republican ties to Moon. It's all there on his site for anyone who wants to see the truth. Your side doesn't, and eventually, the truth is going to get you. It always does. I didn't even direct my post at you. You simply saw yourself in it, and by posting such a pitiful rebuttal, verified the accuracy of my judgment -- you haven't revealed enough of yourself for me to know if you're a racist or a homophobe, but let me assure you that based on your "rebuttal," I do think you're a mental midget.

As for your lumping Matilda and me in with some big names who threatened to leave the US if Chimpboy was elected and then didn't -- well, for starters, Chimpboy WASN'T elected. He was selected by a partisan court's ruling so trumped up, the court itself made a point of rendering it not precedent for any future case. Second (I simply can't resist that wonderful organizational style!), being an American has more to do with what's in your history and heart, not what dirt is under your feet. For any number of reasons, American citizens may chose to live abroad, and virtually none of them are any business of yours. Third (oh, the wonder of this device!), how do we know where YOU are? Fourth (but then it does get old, doesn't it?), why would anyone care where you are, unless perhaps to avoid a face-to-face encounter with someone like you?

Let's you and I center on one item. I don't think you're capable of any more than that anyway, and I do want to give you a fighting chance. Let's dissect the Unification Church and its connections to the Bush Crime Family. How DO you feel about this Moon connection, or was that you I saw with the shaved head, white robe and vacant stare selling roses at the airport?

Drop the sophomoric Clinton/Gore/Streisand/Rosie crap, do your homework on Moon, and then bring it on, RT. Come back prepared because I'll cut your next weenie "rebuttal" to pieces with FACTS.

Dana

Date:

02/22/02

Time:

05:21 AM

Comments

Man RB, you really hit a nerve with Dana. She's calling you more names. (Notice I called you RB, not RT - she's not smart enough to do that)

Date:

02/22/02

Time:

05:26 AM

Comments

Thought this was worth passing on:

If you don't understand the Democrats' version of tax cuts, here is an example:

50,000 people go to a baseball game, but the game was rained out. A refund was then due.

The team was about to send out refunds when the Democrats stopped them and suggested that they send out refund amounts based on the Democrats' interpretation of fairness. After all, if the refunds were made based on the price each person paid for the tickets, most of the money would go to the richest people. That would be unconscionable.

The Democrats' plan says:

People in the $10 seats will get back $15, because they have less money to spend. People in the $15 seats will get back $15, because that's only fair.

People in the $25 seats will get back $1, because they already make a lot of money and don't need a refund. People in the $50 luxury seats will have to pay another $50, because they have way too much to spend.

The people driving by the stadium who couldn't even afford to watch the game will get $10 each, even though they didn't pay anything in, because they need the most help.

Now do you understand?

- Stick

Date:

02/22/02

Time:

07:01 AM

Comments

Study of Disputed Florida Ballots Finds Justices Did Not Cast the Deciding Vote

By FORD FESSENDEN and JOHN M. BRODER

comprehensive review of the uncounted Florida ballots from last year's presidential election reveals that George W. Bush would have won even if the United States Supreme Court had allowed the statewide manual recount of the votes that the Florida Supreme Court had ordered to go forward.

Contrary to what many partisans of former Vice President Al Gore have charged, the United States Supreme Court did not award an election to Mr. Bush that otherwise would have been won by Mr. Gore. A close examination of the ballots found that Mr. Bush would have retained a slender margin over Mr. Gore if the Florida court's order to recount more than 43,000 ballots had not been reversed by the United States Supreme Court. November 12, 2001

Copyright 2001 The New York Times Company

So, even if I don't like Bush, I am not going to continue fussing, but am going to get to work to make sure he is not reelected. Stop this nitpicking.

AB

Date:

02/22/02

Time:

08:33 AM

Comments

Boy Dana, a little hot aren't you? RB here, from the United States. RT can still be your little pet name for me. 2 lies you referred to: Bush stole the election and that there is a Bush Crime Ring. The Moonies do own the Wahington Times and are Republican supporters, but that is not a suprise since Democrats are for more Government and the moonies own website states that they don't believe in increasing government control in our lives. That is the only subject in which I agree with the moonies. They are an extreme group and Bush may take campaign contributions from them. They don't scare me any more than the extreme groups like NOW , the NAACP, and the other Gay and Lesbian groups that the Democrats so freely accept money from. I look forward to Dana's response and her continued name calling. Remember when there is no substance Democrats start calling names.

RT :)

Date:

02/22/02

Time:

09:56 AM

Comments

So that's your best attempt at an answer? All you have to say about the Moon connection is that they're an extreme group and Bush MAY take campaign contributions from them? That they don't scare you any more than NOW, NAACP and GLBT groups do? Do you not find this connection even the least bit more problematical than that?

Teacher suggests this response is the intellectual equivalent of "the dog ate my homework, Miss Dana." And oh, but I do humbly beg your pardon for getting your initials wrong, RB. I assure you it's only that Teacher has so many slow learners in her class this semester.

Your answers to the first two are in evidence, but please do answer the last of the above questions in your next utterance, Mister (or is it Miss?) RB, or be prepared to receive an incomplete on this assignment. And for the other cut-ups in her remedial class, Teacher kindly requests that you at least add something of significance the next time you speak out of turn.

I will be out of the room for most of the day. I trust my little darlings will behave themselves. AB, Teacher will deal with you later -- the current lesson is the Moonie Connection -- but for now, Teacher must tell you that your answer, even though pulled from that august bastion of truth, the New York Times, is quite simply incorrect. And from you, Mr. RB, I expect a solid answer to be posted upon my return.

Dana

Date:

02/22/02

Time:

10:25 AM

Comments

A reading assignment for Mister RB and any others who have not done their homework. The author assures Miss Dana that her assertions are well-documented, and has personally offered to provide her sources.

Teacher (if "Father" can do it, Teacher can) now leaves her young charges with lesson one on Moon, the Washington Times, and the Bush connection.

Dana __________

Look Who's Talking

By: Bridget Gibson - 01/08/02

In the last nine years, the Church poured eight hundred million dollars in cold cash into The Washington Times. 800 million. You have no idea how much money that is. If you deposited that money into a bank, the interest alone, at 10% a year, would be eight million dollars per month. At 12%, it would be even more. That is one hundred million dollars a year. This is just the money that the Church has invested in the American media. With all the other money put together, Father has invested two billion dollars in the providence in America. This is a fact. - Sun Myung Moon

In the 1980s, armed with new satellite and digital technologies, the IMF, World Bank and U.S. government forced the deregulation and privatization of the communication industry. The result was the rise of transnational media giants. With only a handful of media "sources" as the conduits of "news", political influence over the content of the news had become common place. Certain key players were becoming proficient at manipulating these media conglomerates to pass on the news - even if it wasn't true. You need to look at the source carefully and one of those sources is the Washington Times.

The Washington Times began in 1982. It did not exist before that time. This was not an "old city newspaper" that was taken over or acquired by new management. This was a paper created for a "purpose". In the first fourteen years of its publication the Reverend Sun Myung Moon invested over one billion dollars to do so. His designated spokesman, Dr. Bo Hi Pak explained this as "a most precious investment for freedom", saying that it was now "a must-read for all opinion-makers not only in Washington but all over the United States, and indeed ranks among the great newspapers of the world!"

So, with all of the fanfare and hoopla, it became imperative to find the reasons for the existence of this newspaper. What I have found is highly disturbing. I have found a person with ideas and ideals so contrary to the American society that amazement and concern are constantly competing emotions.

If you are not familiar with Reverend Moon, allow me to show you a few of the more obvious problems with his religious beliefs. Note: When Sun Myung Moon speaks, he refers to himself in an extremely strange way. He does not say "I", he says "Father". I can only suppose that he wishes to make his speeches sound as though they have been delivered by someone else, because no one would give the credence and weight to these words if spoken in the first person. His megalomania would be exposed as the shameful garbage it actually is.

Sun Myung Moon claims to be free of sin. He claims to have more wisdom than Jesus, and he has often said that he is greater than Jesus. Sun Myung Moon teaches that:

"Abraham was the father of faith, Moses was a man of faith, Jesus was the son of man, trying to carry out his mission at the cost of his life. But they are, in a way, failures." (Sun Myung Moon, "Victory or Defeat," from Master Speaks, March 31, 1973, p.1.) He also teaches: "This means that the failures of Adam and of Jesus Christ have been restored by the appearance of True Parents." (Rev. Moon, Today's World, January, 1995, p.8)

I don't know about you, but I was never taught that Jesus was a failure and that there would be a better version, not the return of the messiah, but the replacement of him. Sun Myung Moon believes that he is better than Jesus and he has come to unite the world with the Unification Church and his teachings. The following quote comes from the Unification Church book, and is purportedly a message from Jesus. (pp 61-66) If Moon is to be believed, we need to rewrite the Bible to suit his purpose. I don't think I'm quite ready to do that, are you?

"Bring in the flocks. Bring in the sheep and bring them to the throne of your True Parents. Bring them to the throne of our True Parents, the mighty throne of heaven. And I will place the Crown of Glory on our True Parents' head. I will lead them. I will show them that the Lord of Lords and the Kings of Kings and the King of Glory is our precious Lord Sun Myung Moon and his beloved bride Hak Ja Han. They reign as king and queen of the entire universe. And that I, Jesus of Nazareth, known as the Christ, bow in humility before them. I bow before them. Any who will follow me must do the same. I bow before the name of True Parents. I bow before our precious Lords, our True Parents, Sun Myung Moon and Hak Ja Han." (Purportedly by the spirit of Heung Jin Nim Moon, The Victory of Love, NY, NY: The Holy Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity, 1992, pp. 65-66).

It would be quite easy for me, at this point, to completely write Mr. Moon off as complete quackery and for being a devious cult with questionable motives. The reason that I cannot do that is for the love of God. I refuse to yield to such chicanery. But many people do not understand who is talking when they are reading the news. They do not understand the manipulation of facts and stories and the twisting of truths to suit their purposes. The following are other quotes by Mr. Moon:

Father's job is the unification of left and right, but on different levels, the family level, the tribe level, the nation level, world wide level, universal level, cosmic level and God and human beings level. On every level Father is bringing unity. Father united Christian morality and the leadership of this nation. Ever since Father came, since the time of Ronald Reagan, Father has had influence over choosing the right president and Christianity has come to stand more and more on Father's side. This is very important for this country.

On January 13, 2001, there will take place the "Coronation Ceremony of the Royal Parents of Heaven and Earth." In the Garden of Eden, the archangel, Eve and Adam united and lost their position. This means God even lost His position. We need the Messiah in order to restore God's position. That is why the True Parents came, and based on the True Parents' foundation Heavenly Father can be the real king of all creation.

After reading many of Mr. Moon's quotes and beliefs, his use of the term "Christianity" appears somehow misleading. Because Mr. Moon does not believe in Christ. He believes himself to be superior to Christ and has attempted to usurp that role for himself.

So now you are asking, what in the world does this have to do with today? What does this have to do with politics? What could I possibly tell you about Mr. Moon and politics today?

Mr. Moon claims to have written the Reagan Doctrine for SDI, or Star Wars Program. He claims to have sponsored and promoted it to the Whitehouse and defense department in 1984. And that three weeks after this promotion, Reagan announced (in the State of the Union) that SDI would become a part of our national defense program. Now we know from whence that failed idea came. Do you feel sure that the current expansion of that program does not have the same origination?

When Mr. Moon was attempting to expand his media into Argentina, he called upon a long-time friend of his to come and be the keynote speaker. This friend was George Herbert Walker Bush and the following is an excerpt from his speech:

"I want to salute Reverend Moon, who is the founder of The Washington Times and also of Tiempos del Mundo," Bush declared. "A lot of my friends in South America don't know about The Washington Times, but it is an independent voice. The editors of The Washington Times tell me that never once has the man with the vision interfered with the running of the paper, a paper that in my view brings sanity to Washington, D.C. I am convinced that Tiempos del Mundo is going to do the same thing" in Latin America.

What George H. W. Bush said was untrue, in that the first editor of the Washington Times, James Whelan, resigned in 1984, confessing that he had "blood on his hands" for helping the church achieve greater legitimacy.

Mr. Moon was quite excited at this glowing recommendation and felt that Mr. Bush's presence as keynote speaker gave the event invaluable prestige. George Herbert Walker Bush also appeared in promotional videos for the Unification Church. In 1995, he and Barbara, his wife, gave six speeches in Asia for the Women's Federation for World Peace, a group led by Moon's wife. In 1996, Bush addressed the Moon-connected Family Federation for World Peace in Washington. The estimates of Bush's fee for the Buenos Aires appearance alone ran between $100,000 and $500,000, and some have said that the speaking fees that Bush has garnered for his appearances may be in excess of ten million dollars.

By speaking on behalf of Mr. Moon and his organizations, our former president (father of our current president) has lent credence and prestige and an air of respectability to what many might deem as someone downright sinister.

On January 19, 2001, Mr. Moon's Unification Church sponsored an "Inaugural Prayer Luncheon for Unity and Renewal" for George Walker Bush. Two Bush administration nominees were in attendance: Stephen Goldsmith, the former Indianapolis mayor who will promote "charitable choice" initiatives, and Attorney General John Ashcroft. Mr. Goldsmith promoted the Bush plan to give churches federal funds to offer social services, later called the "Faith Based Initiatives". Mr. Ashcroft was the keynote speaker. Another attendee was Jerry Falwell, who has "allowed" Mr. Moon to generously restructure a three million dollar debt for his Liberty University through the Women's Federation for World Peace, which promptly "forgave" the debt.

A Unification Church report describing the luncheon said that these events show Moon's ability to draw a broad cross-section of religious leaders to his events, asserting that the gathering "united Christian leaders black and while, including Robert Schuller, Jerry Falwell, the leader of the Southern Baptist Convention, a representative of the Bill Graham organization, and many others."

The Washington Times is wielding much power. Mr. Moon and his organizations now own many other media outlets, not the least of which is the United Press International (UPI), a newswire service, Insight Magazine, Radio Free Europe (receives 100% of its news from the Washington Times), Atlantic Video, Belleville Press, CARP Monthly, Global Affairs, Global Insight, Harlem Weekly, HeartWing, Heaven & Earth, International Exchange Press, Manhattan Magazine, Manhattan Television Center, New Era Books, New Future Films, News World Communications, Noticias Del Mundos, Paragon House Publishers, Principle Life, Queens Magazine, Rising Tide, D.C., Rose of Sharon Press, Sae Gae Times, Segye Times, Sekai Nippo, Spring of Life, Sunrise, The Pacific Student Times, The Weekly Religion, Ultimas Noticias, Unification News, Unification Thought Quarterly, Visual Arts Society, Washington Golf Monthly, Washington Television Center, Way of the World, World & I Magazine, World Media Association, World Media Conference and World University Times.

It behooves us as citizens of this United States to know the source and who is writing and selling their version of the news. To unwittingly ignore the source only continues to lend the false credibility to those that take advantage of the consolidation of corporate ownership of the media and communications system.

Date:

02/22/02

Time:

08:14 PM

Comments

Dana,

I was starting to think you may be a semi- intelligent person. At least not outright name calling this time. By the way, it is Mister RB. It's ok if you forget, you seem to be a little mixed up.

Maybe it's your souces. Hmmmm, to quote you, "bastion of truth". I checked out the author of your article - Bridget Gibson. She writes for The Democratic Underground, SmirkingChimp.com and Americaheldhostile.com.

Now that sounds like a non biased, rational person. She's as extreme as the moonies. Sorry, tht won't pass as a reliable source.

I stand by my statement, you are wrong about Bush Stealing the election and you made up (or continue to spread) the lie about a Bush crime ring. Show me facts.

Now here's a homeowrk assignment for everyone. Read Tammy Bruce's work, "The New Thought Police". Hey Dana - I saw you cringe! You know her, the former California NOW President that was slapped down by the National Office for stating the truth about the OJ trial. In her book she tells all about the workings of NOW and the Democratic Party. She has plenty of hard refrences to back up her alligations (that should please you teacher). Probably why NOW hasn't sued her.

Looking forward to hearing from you Dana. I may be slow to respond, I'm working this weekend and millions of Democrats on welfare are waiting for my tax money.

RB

RB

Date:

02/23/02

Time:

12:46 AM

Comments

Mister RB, you are a most difficult and unruly individual. Being no one's fool, Miss Dana doesn't give a fig what degree of intelligence her student may ascribe her, but she also knows you have gone a bit past thinking she may be a semi-intelligent person. Please pay attention this time.

As I told you before, one thing at a time seems all you can handle (and I'm having serious doubts about even that) -- I must insist that we stay with the lesson plan, and the topic under discussion is the Moon connection. Teacher will get to your other questions later, but only AFTER we resolve this one, and not until.

Once again, you've earned an "F." One would wonder if you even bothered to read the assignment. Did you just do a web search and find the author's work appears on a liberal web site? Perhaps I'm wasting my time with you, but it might help if Teacher explains a few basic things about the pursuit of truth and knowledge.

By tacitly inferring that anyone who's not of the same political persuasion as you is incapable of telling the truth, you render yourself the quintessential hopeless case. Impeaching the source is always easy. Are you simply too lazy to counter her assertions with fact of your own, or do you actually accept this Moon - Bush - rabid fundamentalist right-wing connection? If you don't trust someone who opposes him, and can't produce anything at all to support another view, then one would almost have to assume you've placed your faith in leaders who are connected with, and are paid by Reverend Moon. Perhaps you just can't handle the truth about such a troubling connection as this.

Have you even been to Moon's web site yet? You are making a major mistake in ignoring this man's power over your Republican friends.

Sometimes slower students can benefit from a visual aid. If you would care to provide an e-mail address, I'll gladly send you a couple of pictures you may find rather disturbing. One is of Moon and Jerry Falwell locked in a warm embrace. The other is of Poppy Bush and Babs all snuggled up with Mr. and Mrs Moon and family members, cutting a big piece of cake.

As for what went on and who attended that big luncheon, I'll save you the trouble of paying for an archived article from Moon's paper, the Washington Times where this story was front page news on January 20, 2001.

__________

Ashcroft says America is nation 'worth praying for'

The Washington Times

John Ashcroft, the president-elect's nominee for U.S. attorney general, dropped in on an overflowing interracial and interfaith inaugural prayer luncheon yesterday and brought down the house of 1,700 religious and political figures with a tale of amazing grace.

"This is a country worth praying for," Mr. Ashcroft said, and told how he was drawn the other day to the poignant wail of a street musician's trumpet playing the notes of the hymn "Amazing Grace."

"He stopped in midnote," Mr. Ashcroft said, "and put out his hand with a cry, `Senator Ashcroft, I'm for you, man.' "

As he walked down the street on his way to his office, Mr. Ashcroft said, he heard the trumpeter's notes of another hymn, "Love Lifted Me."

"I'm sure not going to forget `Love Lifted Me,' " said Mr. Ashcroft, who had just completed four days of contentious hearings on his nomination, in which he had been roughly questioned by Senate Democrats about his views on racism, abortion and homosexual rights.

When he stepped from the platform, in the ballroom of the Hyatt at the foot of Capitol Hill, he was embraced by a swarm of well-wishers, many of them black clergymen.

The prayer event, "America Come Together," was one of the largest and most diverse inaugural religious gatherings of clergy and lawmakers in memory.

Amidst a three-hour program of prayers by Christian preachers, a rabbi, a Muslim imam and a Franciscan layman, Rep. Danny K. Davis, an Illinois Democrat and member of the Congressional Black Caucus, read a resolution that he and Rep. Philip M. Crane of Illinois, a Republican, will introduce next week in Congress calling on the nation to "dwell in unity and one accord."

"There ought to be more that unites us . . . than drives us apart," said Mr. Davis.

The prayer luncheon was sponsored by The Washington Times Foundation, a nonprofit educational group, which is separate from the newspaper, and organized by a committee that included Doug Wead, who worked in the first Bush White House, and the Rev. Walter E. Fauntroy, pastor of New Bethel Baptist Church and a former D.C. delegate to Congress.

Martin Luther King, evangelist Billy Graham, and the Rev. Sun Myung Moon were honored by an ecumenical group of clergymen. The Rev. Moon received an award for his work in support of traditional family values.

The world's faiths arose to cultivate the human spirit, and "that is why religions tell us to fast, to serve others, to be sacrificial," said Rev. Moon, who described the family as the school of peace and God's love.

"It is possible for humankind to receive a great blessing through the rededication of marriage ceremony centered upon God's ideal of family," he said.

Mr. Fauntroy introduced several men and women who were White House liaisons to religious groups going back to the Ford administration, two U.S. senators and 12 members of the U.S. House of Representatives.

The Rev. James Merritt, president of the Southern Baptist Convention, gave the tribute to Mr. Graham who, if not for a doctor's advice to rest, would today have prayed at his 10th inaugural since 1953 with President Eisenhower. He is believed to have preached to more people than any man in history. "In the life of Billy Graham, there has not been one hint of scandal," Mr. Merritt said.

Mr. Wead, who had been religion liaison in the Bush administration from 1989 to 1993, also introduced what he called "seven of the top 10 television evangelists in America today." They included Paul Crouch, founder of the Trinity Broadcasting Network, and Kenneth Copeland, both of whom made brief remarks. "We are here, in a larger sense, to honor an office, an office God has used to bless our nation and virtually every nation on Earth," said Mr. Crouch, speaking of the presidency.

Rabbi David Ben-Ami, chairman of the American Forum for Jewish-Christian Cooperation, spoke of the common Jewish and Christian heritage. "The Torah is my and your holy Scriptures," he said, reading from the Old Testament on God, nations and leadership. "This noon, this is my congregation."

The Rev. Jerry Falwell, chancellor of Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va., brought greetings from the Rev. Jesse Jackson, with whom he spoke late Thursday about his acknowledgment of a 20-month-old daughter he had fathered with an aide in the Washington office of his Rainbow-PUSH Coalition.

"He asks your prayers," said Mr. Falwell. "He apologizes, he takes responsibility and makes no excuses, points no fingers at anyone else, and that's all a man can do. It's not a time to put our foot on the neck of anyone who is down." His remarks were greeted with scattered "amens" and emphatic assertions of "that's right."

Many of the religious figures spoke of the size and ecumenical nature of the prayer luncheon. "There's always something like this at a church," said the Rev. Robert Maddox, who worked in the Carter administration. "It's a gargantuan thing to bring off, and this is bigger than usual."

The Rev. Jack Hayford, who will give the benediction at the 54th Presidential Inaugural Prayer Service at the National Cathedral tomorrow , looked over yesterday's event and said it represented a new mood of interreligious and interracial cooperation. "This is something that's been a process in the past five years," Mr. Hayford said in an interview. He cited the Southern Baptist apology for slavery in 1995, the Promise Keepers' apologies to women for abuse by men, and the interracial reconciliation summits of Pentecostals, of which he was a leader as pastor of the Church on the Way in Van Nuys, Calif.

Hundreds of the participants also were in Washington for the American Leadership Conference (ALC), which holds inspirational and training events for clergy and state legislators. Dr. William Anderson, a Howard University graduate who brought his wife and daughter to the ALC event and inaugural, said that some of the old civil rights rhetoric must give way to constructive proposals. "I brought my daughter here to show her it's not the color of your skin, but the content of your character," said Dr. Anderson, a Baptist deacon whose wife, Janette, is Roman Catholic.

The Rev. Robert Schuller, pastor of the Crystal Cathedral in Garden Grove, Calif., and host of the popular "Hour of Power" telecast, marveled at the "myriad" of different religious groups praying in the same room and complimented each for its own "spiritual pilgrimage."

"Many of you had reason not to accept this invitation because of, 'Who else will be there?' " Mr. Schuller said. "And yet there is an overriding unity. And the only way I can explain it in my theology is the Holy Spirit [and that] Jesus Christ has really diversified His investment portfolio."

Singer Pat Boone, a member of the evangelical denomination Churches of Christ, noted the "wonderful feeling" at the prayer event, encompassing Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus, which overflowed into adjoining smaller ballrooms. "We love you, we cherish you, we respect you," said Mr. Boone. He also sang. Other performers included singer John Michael Talbot, a Franciscan with the Brothers and Sisters of Charity, and trumpeter Phil Driscoll.

A few political matters were touched on besides the standing ovation for Mr. Ashcroft, who did not mention the confirmation hearings.

The Bush campaign's chief domestic policy adviser, Stephen Goldsmith, a Jewish leader and former mayor of Indianapolis, said the new Republican administration wants to give religious ministries more freedom to solve social problems. "All of us here want the government to no longer be hostile" to religious groups, said Mr. Goldsmith. "This is an administration that will clear out the regulation problems, clear out the legal problems."

Imam Hassan Qazwini, director of the Islamic Center of America, said that "all praise is due to Allah" and urged prayers for "children in Palestine," or the West Bank, and Iraq, against which the United States continues its economic embargo.

In introducing Rev. Moon, Wesley Pruden, editor in chief of The Washington Times, paid tribute to the Rev. and Mrs. Moon, whom he described as "old friends" and to Rev. Moon's vision of a secular newspaper in the nation's capital to cover the world, and promised that "armed with editorial independence and that vision, we will always be faithful to the values that bind God's children together." ___________

Date:

02/23/02

Time:

01:29 AM

Comments

Just a few Moon references from non-liberal sites for any students who may care to know the truth.

There are a multitude of actual Moon quotes at xmoonies.com with links to the original Moon source, as well as articles from Moon's paper, the Washington Times, lke this first one -- hmm, 60 congressmen and senators - don't you wonder how many were Republicans?

05-16-2001 Washington Times Bush Administration Commends Sun Myung Moon

More than 60 congressmen and senators came to the Capitol Hill event to greet award winners from their states. The Times Foundation also presented a special Lifetime Service Award to the Rev. Sun Myung Moon for his more than 30 years of investment in America. (...) The Rev. Mark Scott, associate director of the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives, offered congratulations on behalf of the Bush administration to the Moons and the 64 recipients of the service awards. _________

(from Moon's own site) MOON'S CHURCH WILL REPLACE CHRISTIANITY IN AMERICA

SUN MYUNG MOON TRUE PARENTS' BIRTHDAY SUNG NI HAN CHAMPUMONIM VICTORIOUS TRUE PARENTS January 28, 1993 Grand Ball Room, WMC. New York Translator - Bo Hi Pak http://www.unification.net/1993/930128b.html

"Since American Christian churches have come against Father so adamantly, Father created the Unification Church to replace the Christian world in America. Father invested considerable resources to save America. So now not only this world, but the communist world, the eastern European block, China and N. Korea will all come under Father's wings."

___________

03-02-2001 (article from the Piladelphia Inquirer)

Moon to lead session on faith-based programs

In a case of strange bedfellows, a lineup of mainstream religious leaders will gather today in a Pentecostal church for a faith-based initiatives conference led by the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, controversial founder of the Unification Church.

Mr. Moon's forces organized the North Philadelphia event, and he will be its keynote speaker.

Among local figures on the program are the Rev. W. Wilson Goode, who is spearheading the Street administration's faith-based initiatives; William Devlin, president of the evangelical Urban Family Council; and Phyllis Bennett, the state welfare department's liaison to religious groups.

Mr. Moon, 81, created the Unification Church in Korea and brought it to this country in the 1970s. Growth was rapid for a time, but the church's hard-sell tactics - and its teaching that Mr. Moon is the messiah - caused critics to accuse it of brainwashing.

In recent years, the aging leader has taken steps to win mainstream acceptance. The church was replaced by an entity called the Family Federation for World Peace and Unification, and its public agenda became marriage and family values.

Critics of President Bush's support of faith-based social programs have held out the Unification Church as a prime example of the sort of fringe religion that might now qualify for government contracts. Indeed, Mr. Moon's movement is preparing to apply for federal funds for its sexual-abstinence programs in schools, and today's event will begin with a panel talk on faith-based initiatives. ______________

(some people do have principles) 05-17-2000 Veteran Newswoman Thomas Resigns Post After UPI Sale WASHINGTON--When Helen Thomas began covering the White House, the United States was 10 years from putting astronauts on the moon and the fashionable first lady was wearing a pillbox hat.

On Tuesday, 40 years and many presidents later, the 79-year-old Thomas announced she is resigning from United Press International, the news agency for which she worked for 57 years, after it was bought by a company affiliated with the Rev. Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church. ________________

As they say, 'read 'em and weep.'

Dana

Date:

02/23/02

Time:

01:36 AM

Comments

RB said: "I'm working this weekend and millions of Democrats on welfare are waiting for my tax money."

You are very mistaken. Welfare is basically gone, thanks to Bill Clinton.

Actually our tax money does NOT go to millions of Democrats, it goes to about two dozen of Bush and Cheney's billionaire friends.

Get your facts straight.

If you have done your taxes this year yet, you will know a lot more about what I mean.

Cozmo

Date:

02/23/02

Time:

01:44 AM

Comments

Since RB disavows any possibility of truth emerging from a liberal source, perhaps the Mobile (Alabama) Register might be acceptable. Let me assure RB that Alabama is one sucky winger refuge, mired hopelessly in the same fundamentalism that Republicans on the far right have so strongly embraced. The state's constitution is listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as being the longest of all such documents, with over 700 amendments. There are NO liberal papers in Alabama.

http://www.al.com/news/mobile/Jul2000/30-a374300a.html

07/30/00 By BEN RAINES Staff Reporter

When U.S. Sen. Trent Lott stood before his fellow lawmakers in 1993 and encouraged them to support "True Parents Day," some said he was doing the bidding of the Rev. Sun Myung Moon and the Unification Church.

That holiday, reborn as just plain "Parents Day" and officially celebrated the fourth Sunday of July, was signed into law in 1995 by President Clinton. Children are supposed to salute their parents, as on Mother's Day or Father's Day.

Lott's Senate speech that first introduced the innocuous sounding day does seem to reveal a connection between Moon and his wife, Hak Ja Han, referred to as the "True Parents" by Unificationists the world over.

But Parents Day is only one example of increasing connections between the Unification Church and Republican leaders, whose party convention starts in Philadelphia on Monday.

Some have even questioned GOP presidential nominee George W. Bush's ties to the church. Since leaving the presidency, Bush's father has spoken at three Unification-sponsored events, allegedly earning millions of dollars from Moon's organization.

In an interview with MSNBC, a spokesman for the younger Bush's campaign said he has not received funds from Moon "of any note." With dozens of Moon-affiliated political organizations, hundreds of businesses and thousands of American members, it is impossible to trace how much Unification money may have been contributed.

The connection to Parents Day is more tangible.

"I wish to join the Women's Federation for World Peace in celebrating July 28, 1993, as True Parents Day. I also urge my colleagues in the U.S. Senate, and all citizens of our Nation to recognize and support True Parents Day and the restoration of God-centered families in our society," the senator from Pascagoula said in 1993, finishing up by inviting Senate members to attend a presentation by Moon's wife, the president of the Women's Federation for World Peace.

The following day, after an introduction by Sen. Orrin Hatch R-Utah, Mrs. Moon gave a lecture on Capitol Hill, during which she revealed that she and her husband are "the first True Parents." In Unification dogma, as Moon explained to the crowd, the True Parents will save humanity. The reverend himself sat in the front row during the speech, surrounded by members of both the House and Senate.

Church officials admit they lobbied for the holiday, motivated by their belief in families. They deny there is a connection between the new national holiday and one of the Unification Church's holiest days.

According to church literature, which often refers to Moon and his wife as the Messiah: "Parents' Day is a day of hope when people can attend God on the Earth and enjoy happiness and glory. Without this day, human beings cannot go to heaven and thus to God."

Still, despite the denial, much was made of the congressional coup in the Unification News. The church publication featured a photo of the Moons holding a framed copy of the final bill, co-sponsored in 1994 by U.S. Reps Dan Burton and Floyd Flake.

Both before and after the Parents Day triumph, the Unification Church has been courting the right wing establishment.

After Reagan's 1980 election, he was photographed holding a copy of the News World, a Moon-owned paper, heralding his victory. Moon created several anti-communist organizations that ex-Unificationists say funneled money to the Contras during Reagan's administration.

President Bush spoke at several Moon-sponsored events, including Women's Federation For World Peace functions, a Family Federation For World Peace event in Washington and at the opening of a new church-owned paper in Buenos Aires, Argentina.

When conservative minister Jerry Falwell's Liberty University nearly folded, the Unification Church bailed it out with a $3.5 million loan.

Church officials say they are not trying to buy influence.

Instead, they say, the staunchly conservative slant of the Washington Times, a newspaper owned and supported by the Unification Church, earns them friends.

Those friends have not come cheap. Church officials recently announced that the paper has lost $1 billion since it opened.

The Washington Times Foundation, a non-profit group associated with the Unification Church, held an awards ceremony in February at which Moon was presented with the Distinguished Lifetime Achievement Award for Freedom, Faith and Family.

The Washington Times covered the event and said a lot of movers and shakers in the Republican party were there, including Hatch and Sen. Strom Thurmond, R-S.C., House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., and Reps. Henry Hyde and Christopher Cox. Alexander Haig, former commander of NATO forces, turned up, as did Reagan-era defense secretary Caspar Weinberger.

Critics and former members of the church say Moon uses photos and videos of himself rubbing elbows with the powerful to attract and impress new followers.

A church-owned publication, Today's World, described the 1996 Family Federation event where Bush spoke: "The providence of God through True Parents continues to advance giant stride by giant stride... Included among the guest speakers were former presidents George Bush and Gerald Ford... Prime Minister Sir Edward Heath of Great Britain and former congressman and currently a leading figure in the Republican party, Jack Kemp."

Unificationists say the politicians simply are attracted to the family programs the church promotes.

"I don't think any of these guys are particularly sweet on the Unification Church," said Philip Schanker, president of the church's Family Federation for World Peace. "Even if they disagree with the church, they support family values.

"I think what's happening in America, a new constituency is developing, one that doesn't think we should tell kids, 'We know you can't control yourselves, so use contraceptives.' It's not a traditional black versus white or rich versus poor issue. Lots of organizations not related to our movement are promoting family values. ... We have a very legitimate effort to bring these values into policy-making."

On Friday in Mobile, Alabama state Sen. George Callahan, R-Theodore, spoke at the American Leadership Conference, a Unification-sponsored event.

"I've attended several of their sessions and events. They seem to want to diversify and become part of the larger religious community of Mobile," Callahan said. "They aren't pushing their religion, it's more family values. That's why they invite me. My platform falls in line with theirs. I'm a pro-life, family values politician." ________

Getting the picture yet, RB?

Dana

Date:

02/23/02

Time:

01:45 AM

 

Double post by Dana deleted by Moderator 

Date:

02/23/02

Time:

01:57 AM

Comments

Well, hello, Cosmo. So good of you to drop by our class. Would you care to be the one to tell RB that the national debt went from $1 trillion to $4 trillion during the twelve hellish years of drunken spending under Reagan-Bush? That after eight years of Clinton, therre was actually a surplus? That after one year of Bush Junior, there's a large and getting larger deficit? That RB's Social Security will be raided to pay for an endless war against a concept? That the markets are in the tank? That where Whitewater lost its investors (including the Clinton's) $800,000? That Enron lost its investors over $80 BILLION? That Clinton was hounded for every minute over Whitewater, as Bush gets a pass, and Kenny-boy becomes "that man"?

Oh, never mind, I already did.

Date:

02/23/02

Time:

02:07 AM

Comments

Democrats on welfare? Wait till that fool finds out about line 47 on his tax form this year.

He hasn't heard about it, but he will.

Here's the story. The Bush administration didn't want to give those famous $300 rebate checks; its original plan would have pumped hardly any money into the economy last year. Under prodding from Democrats the plan was changed to incorporate immediate cash outlays. But those outlays were included only grudgingly, and with a catch: they really weren't rebates. Instead, they were merely advances on future tax cuts.

What that means is that most taxpayers, when they reach line 47 of their 1040's, will discover that they owe $300 more in taxes than they expected. In other words, the one piece of the Bush tax cut that probably did help the economy last year is about to be snatched away. The direct monetary impact will be significant; the psychological impact, as taxpayers realize that they've been misled, may be even greater.

Say, will there be a notation on the form that credits the Bush regime with the "recall" of your tax "rebate"? You know, like the letter sent by the IRS in advance of the "rebate," informing recipients the cash was a gift from George W. Bush?

Something like, "Dear Taxpayer.. Remember when we sent you that check last year and a note saying, 'We are pleased to inform you that the United States Congress passed -- and President George W. Bush signed into law -- the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Act of 2001, which provides long-term tax relief for all Americans who pay income taxes'? Well, President George W. Bush is demanding you send it back now, or face severe penalties, including fines and/or imprisonment."

The whole Bush tax-cut was a Texas snake-oil sales job by his billionaire friends to rob America blind!

Cozmo

Date:

02/23/02

Time:

02:07 AM

Double post by Cozmo deleted by Moderator

 

Date:

02/23/02

Time:

02:09 AM

Comments

Sorry about the double post, everyone. Perhaps Matilda can delete it.

Sorry, too, that not everything true comes from a conservative right-wing source with instant credibility for persons like RB. Here's an interesting article from two years ago, archived at Consortium News -- the Moon copnnection goes all the way back to that wonderful man, Richard Nixon.

Rev. Moon & His 'Green Card' By Robert Parry

Rev. Sun Myung Moon received his status as a U.S. "lawful permanent resident" nearly 25 years ago, during President Nixon's administration, according to a Justice Department document recently released under a Freedom of Information Act request.

In a letter dated April 7, 1975, James F. Greene, then deputy commissioner of the Immigration and Naturalization Service, listed the date when Moon obtained his "green card" as April 30, 1973. But it was unclear from the released document whether Moon received any preferential treatment from the Nixon administration.

By 1973, Moon already was a controversial figure. The South Korean theocrat was under public criticism for brainwashing impressionable young Americans who were recruited into Moon's Unification Church. Moon also was raising INS concerns by bringing hundreds of foreign followers to the United States on tourist visas and then assigning them to mobile fund-raising teams.

But Moon was making himself useful to the Nixon administration by organizing support for the Vietnam War and later for Nixon's defense against the Watergate scandal. Moon's pro-Nixon activities led to a face-to-face White House meeting between the South Korean and the besieged U.S. president on Feb. 1, 1974.

Though the Justice Department released no documents about how Moon gained his resident alien status, Nixon did have a history of assisting political patrons with immigration problems. According to Seymour Hersh's The Dark Side of Camelot, Nixon received a $100,000 bribe from Romanian industrialist Nicolae Malaxa, a Nazi collaborator who moved to the United States in 1946. Nixon battled to gain preferential treatment for Malaxa so he could stay in the United States, which Malaxa did until his death in 1972. Hersh reported that the Central Intelligence Agency had a copy of the $100,000 check made out to Nixon.

According to a 1978 congressional investigative report on the "Koreagate" influence-buying scandal, "Moon had laid the foundation for political work in this country prior to 1973 [though] his followers became more openly involved in political activities in that and subsequent years." The report added that Moon's organization used his followers' travels to smuggle large sums of money into the United States in apparent violation of federal currency laws.

That flow of money helped transform Moon into possibly the U.S. conservative movement's most important source of financial support. Since the early 1970s, Moon has poured billions of dollars into conservative causes, including an estimated $100 million a year to subsidize the daily Washington Times newspaper. Moon's organization also funnelled money to many conservative political figures, including Rev. Jerry Falwell and former President George Bush. [See The Consortium series last year.]

According to other Justice Department records released under FOIA requests, Moon's legal alien status has protected him and his movement from government investigations into their sources of money and other legal questions.

Though eligible for citizenship in 1978, Moon never became a U.S. citizen. Then, about two years ago, frustrated by the apparent decline in his church's membership, Moon began denouncing the United States as "Satanic" and reviling Americans as individualistic. In 1996, Moon moved his base of operation to Uruguay.

Nevertheless, Moon has not renounced his "green card," according to U.S. officials familiar with his case. ~

(c) Copyright 1998

Date:

02/23/02

Time:

02:34 AM

Comments

Oh, RB? I think I've found someone even less informed than you -- but what's this? God help us all, it's the leader of the free world.

Dana

Watch "leadership" in action on real video, hear it on real audio at: http://www.hypocrites.com/article.php?sid=3486 ______________

According to George Bush, there was no World War II

This idiot said that we and Japan have been peace partners for 150 years.

Nevermind Pearl Harbor, WWII, Hiroshima, Nagasaki....

I know he mispoke but WTF? I'm sure Gore didn't mean to pretty much say that he invented the Internet, but that didn't stop Bush to make fun of Gore during the presidential debates. By the way, this gaffe has nothing to do with the one the day before, where he sent the yen down by screwing up 'deflation' and "devaluation'. Notice how quited and embarrassed they (Japan's Parliament) felt when he said that, not even a sound!

This was submitted by a visitor who took it from democrats.com --------------------------------- From Democrats.com: Is Bush telling a deliberate and historically monumental lie - or is he simply the stupidest man on the entire planet? You decide, because the Washington Press Corps doesn't have the balls to ask B$#@ why he scrubbed World War II from world history in his address to the Japanese Parliament. "My trip to Asia begins here in Japan for an important reason. It begins here because for a century and a half now, America and Japan have formed one of the great and enduring alliances of modern times. From that alliance has come an era of peace in the Pacific." Hey Shrub - your own DAD was shot down over the Pacific in WWII during your "era of peace in the Pacific"! Do we need to demand an investigation of B%$#'s brain???

--End of Democrats.com snipets--

hear it for yourself, I am NOT kidding (go to the URL I've included above and listen to the audio)

-------------- The White House printed the Karl Rove edition on their transcripts, words omitted ----------------- from http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/02/20020218-2.html

President Discusses Unity Between the U.S. & Japan Remarks by the President to the Diet The Diet Tokyo, Japan 10:35 A.M. (L)